Phillies Willing To Pay Some Of Hamels' Contract In Trade - MLB Trade RumorsAn incalculable amount of ink has been dedicated to the Cole Hamels saga and whether or not Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. is asking too much in trade talks, but the GM himself added another layer to the story Tuesday in telling USA Today s Bob Nightengale that the Phillies would pay down some of Hamels contract in a trade. We are very open-minded,  Amaro told Nightengale.  We re not afraid to subsidize contracts. We never told a club that we would not absolutely subsidize his contract. That is not a realistic way to do business. If there s a deal to be made, and we have to subsidize part of it, we ll do it. As recently as Spring Training, reports indicated that the Phillies were looking to add multiple top prospects and get an acquiring club to take on the entirety of Hamels four years and $96MM. (His contract also has a $20MM club option that can vest at $24MM based on innings pitched.)Amaro again took a patient approach when discussing the Hamels situation, noting that it s understandable if teams want to assess their internal options before making a more drastic move to acquire someone from another organization.  It s no secret that one team lost an ace and two or three teams have lost very important starters,  said Amaro.  Some teams want to move quickly. Other teams want to ride things out. I think all of us would rather do deals only after exhausting their own internal possibilities and go from there. The Cardinals recent loss of Adam Wainwright has fueled quite a bit of Hamels-to-St. Louis speculation, and Nightengale also touched base with Cards GM John Mozeliak to discuss Hamels. Mozeliak noted that the team will certainly do its due diligence on trade candidates. Asked if the team could make a deal without including Carlos Martinez, a key member of the 2015 rotation, Mozeliak replied,  There s probably always a deal worth making. Nightengale lists the Cardinals, Red Sox, Dodgers and Blue Jays as teams that could desperately use Hamels in their rotation. The Blue Jays wouldn t seem to have the payroll capacity to add Hamels contract, but perhaps with enough money being paid down, something could be worked out. And for what it s worth, Amaro did mention Toronto GM when making a tongue-in-cheek comment about his stress levels regarding the Hamels negotiations, stating:  I guarantee I ll get more grey hairs from my daughter [taking her driving test] than any trade talks with Mozeliak, Anthopoulos and Cherington.  Nightengale adds that Amaro had talks regarding Hamels with a team as recently as Tuesday morning, and some desperation began to creep into those talks.Jon Heyman of CBS Sports took a lengthy look at the market for Hamels earlier today, noting that the Phillies do indeed covet Martinez, though it s unclear if they ve formally asked for Martinez in trade negotiations with the Redbirds. Per Heyman, the Phillies are also taken with Jorge Alfaro and Nomar Mazara of the Rangers as well as Luis Severino and Aaron Judge of the Yankees. Despite a brutal month for the Red Sox rotation, there s been no change to their refusal to part with Mookie Betts or Blake Swihart, and the Dodgers similarly won t part with any of Joc Pederson, Corey Seager or Julio Urias, even with injuries ravaging their own rotation.One rival exec noted to Heyman that,  A few things have lined up in the Phillies favor. There s a little bit of a crescendo. And now is the time to act.  However, a GM explained to Heyman that he d be more inclined to part with significant pieces to add someone controllable like Seattle s Taijuan Walker than an aging star like Hamels. (That comment, for what it s worth, was made prior to Amaro s comments to Nightengale about absorbing some of the money on Hamels contract.)It strikes me as unlikely that a deal would come together in the near future, but the early rash of pitching injuries, which grew with tonight s news that Masahiro Tanaka is lost for at least a month, has likely increased the demand for Hamels. Though Amaro s refusal to budge has drawn a great deal of criticism, it s certainly easy to make the claim that he s in a better spot to trade Hamels than he was late in the offseason. Douglas Rau 2 months ago And that hurts, I m not gonna lie. No team can lose the ace of their staff and not be effected. However, Chase Whitley pitched fine last night, pitched fine in a similar role last year and the Yankees don t need him to be Masahiro Tanaka, they just need him to give them a fighting chance every 5th day. They still Michael Pineda, who has ace-like stuff, and Sabathia, Eovaldi and Warren have all pitched very well at times. Granted, they ve also all struggled at other times but the Yankees also have one of the best bullpens in the game. If their starters can keep them in the game, they have a great chance at shortening the game. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago Which numbers his 2.68 ERA and 1.00 whip against the Red Sox, his 2.77 against the NYY, 2.25 against the ChiSox, 2.57 against the Tigers. Using interleague numbers to judge the effectiveness of a picture in general is crazy. It is the equivalent of using Greg Maddux s 3-11 5.5+ ERA lifetime against the Arizona Diamondbacks to judge his entire body of work. I could also mention Curt Schilling and his 4.46 interleague ERA. The list goes on and on. By the way, maybe the New York Mets should sign David Price He has a 4.76 ERA against the Phillies and a 1.4 WHIP. MB923 2 months ago You re cherry picking teams. I was talking about his Career Interleague statistics. There s no other larger sample to use. Using one or two teams is nonsense. MB923 2 months ago Well there s nothing else that can be used, and the fact remains, his career has been poor against the AL. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago Which is more indicative..50 IP against Bos and NYY at 2.88 EAR or 15.2 IP against Cle and KC at 11.25 ERA. Interleague # s spread out over 9 years is a ridiculous way to judge. They smallest hiccup jacks the stats. MB923 2 months ago Again, there is Nothing else that can be used. And I will take the entire 30 game sample (almost a full season) over a 2-3 game sample against a specific team. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago so you really equate 30 games over a 9+ year span as indicative? Unbelievable way to gauge any pitchers performance. SMH MB923 2 months ago No. If was talking about what he has done against the AL thusfar in his career and then you cherry pick 2 teams out of the ALSMH. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago And that is my point entirely. By engaging in reductio ad absurdum I have shown how ridiculous it is to use a small sample size as well as a few uncharacteristically poor outings against a few clubs to draw a conclusion. There is absolutely no way to ascertain a pitchers effectiveness against another league based on random starts over a 9+ year window. When Schilling was traded to the Red Sox many deemed it a questionable move because of his less than stellar interleague numbers. I think we know that was hogwash. Prior to the 2008 WS, in his small sample size against the Rays, things did not look good for Hamels, yet he walked away as MVP. Prior to the 2009 WS things look great for Cole (according to some) because he had previously done well against the Yankees in his small sample size. He was shellacked. There is no effective way to judge any pitcher when you are using such a small sample size, spread over a large period of time. It is the equivalent of randomly selecting three games each year for 10 years and deeming those results as a barometer for a pitchers overall effectiveness. I can no more use his limited starts against Boston and New York to say he is a great interleague pitcher, then someone can use his limited starts against Cleveland and KC to say he is a terrible interleague pitcher. There is no effect give way to judge any pitcher in interleague play. Donnie B 2 months ago Include his WS stats in your inter-league games and what result do you have, because see when he pitched in the World Series, he faced the best team in the AL in both 2008 and 2009. And vice-versa too, as an AL Pitcher, won t he be facing NL teams??? Now do his records against every team he would face inter-league as a member of the Red Sox this year if he was a Red Sox Pitcher.I d do the work for you, but I already know that the numbers would look a whole lot different and better. I know he s an ACE and the 3rd best lefty in all of Baseball.Now that Amaro is saying they would eat some of his contract to get better offers, or to open up more teams to get into the picture His value each day just keeps rising.Hamels 31 IP / 21 H / 16 BB / 32 K / 3.19 ERA / 1.19 WHIP .188 BAAHe has given up 1 run or less in 3 of his 5 starts. MB923 2 months ago I never said he isn t an ace. But thanks. And in the WS, 2 starts (wow great sample), but a 4.67 ERA. So there ya go Douglas Rau 2 months ago I don t care about the pitcher he was in 2008 and 2009, I care about the pitcher he is NOW, and will be over the next 3-4 seasons, however long his contract runs. I m sure a lot of people can t do things now they could 6, 7 years ago. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago You may not care about six or seven years ago but do you care about last year , or did he magically become another piece in the trash heap because he s a year older. I m not saying this just because I am a Phillies fan and it s Cole. I m saying it because it is reached the point of ridiculous that every other fan tends to believe that a pitcher automatically becomes useless. After the age of 30, or will automatically require TJS. I just do not understand the mindset anymore. Douglas Rau 2 months ago I m not saying, nowhere have I said Cole Hamels belongs on the trash heap . However, pitching does put an awful stress on the body and injuries become more likely as we get older and take longer to bounce back from, as we get older. If the Yankees were to acquire him today, he would be the second oldest pitcher on the Yankee staff. And TJS is becoming more and more frequent in the game. I m not going to say it s a guarantee Cole Hamels is going to need it but it wouldn t shock me if that was the case one day. NotCanon 2 months ago That s nice. You ll notice I was responding to a comment about how many WS starts he has. That has nothing to do with what you feel like Cole is doing now, or into the future nor, in fact, even how he actually will do now, or into the future. johnsilver 2 months ago Not as long as Amaro insists on either betts/Swihart coming back and heyman has a great point in his piece: Why pay an aging star, ecen if Philly pay some if a Walker/Paxton can be had w/5-6y of control for JUST a Betts type (example). Amaro will expect more than 1 top prospect. Walker seems to be over throwing this season in the 2 games have watched, ditto Paxton. I d rather take on either of those should Boston get desperate than give up Betts plus for a 30+YO and then move Henry Owens later on in another deal if need me. alex navarrette 2 months ago If all the Phillies want is Severino and Judge, I d make that trade in a second if I were the Yankees. I d also add Gary Sanchez if the Phillies wanted. Remember, Hamels has pitched in one of the toughest ballparks his whole career. MB923 2 months ago Yankees farm isn t that strong (though it s not very weak) and trading away their 2 best prospects is certainly not an easy decision and may not be the right one in the long haul. Hamels isn t old but he certainly isn t young. alex navarrette 2 months ago Honestly, I feel like Hamels ability is being underrated. He s a sure thing right now while your prospects may simply bust. Judge has holes in his swing that can be exposed at the big league level, and if Severino doesn t get complete command of his repertoire, he may not be anything more than an average pitcher at the next level. Hamels is an elite pitcher with a contract that is very team friendly considering the going rate of TOR arms atm. Also, the Yankee core is pretty old right now, and Hamels can be the bridge to the future for your team. cxz 2 months ago Just because Severino and Judge are not without minor flaws doesn t make it an easy call for NY in a deal for Hamels(without talking about adding Sanchez as if a throw in ), both have been exceptional so far this year and the issues you bring up are minimal, and in a sense under rate them. Both guys have tremendous potential and in a system without a ton of top level prospects, I wouldn t do a trade if it included both guys. It wouldn t be worth it when they could just let Pineda be the ace and go after a second tier option for much less. Hamels has been good, but using a pitcher 30+ seems like a bad way to bridge to the future if it means giving up the two most promising internal pieces of that future. alex navarrette 2 months ago With Gardner, Ellsbury, McCann and all of the older vets on big contracts, the Yankees need pieces that can come in and ccontribute today while helping a few seasons from now in mentoring the next Yankees core. cxz 2 months ago While I don t entirely disagree with your assessment, I think they re better off opening their wallets this off season than dealing away the two biggest pieces of the next core to achieve that goal to get Hamels. They have the veteran presence of Ellsbury,Gardy,Headley, and McCann to both contribute today and act as mentors to the coming talent(throw CC into the mentoring role as well). Could they use more rotation certainty to solidify today s production? Sure, but not at the cost of both Judge and Severino while the farm is in an upswing, there will be other options out there that won t take that prospect haul to acquire. Hamels makes more sense going somewhere like the Dodgers,BoSox, or Cubs that have the top level prospect depth to make it more feasible. alex navarrette 2 months ago The problem for the Yankees is by waiting to sign someone in the off season, they re going to let these guys on long term contracts age another year. With their relatively conservative actions due to the luxury tax, I doubt Hal s kids will just throw money at new all stars who hit free agency. By waiting for the possibility that these kids develop, they ll miss this group s window of contention. cxz 2 months ago Well personally, I just don t think that going after a top tier arm is a must at this point. I know Tanaka has major health concerns right now, but Pineda has been a gem so far for the Yankees and could very well carry the front of the rotation load as he seems healthy for a change and his stuff has been filthy. In season, there are some second tier arms who are certain to be made available to sure up the current situation(along with Cap and Nova returning). Its a deep free agency for pitching as well and there are going to be less expensive arms than that first tier of Zimmerman Cueto Price ect, and options that are certain to be upgrades over what they have without breaking the bank/emptying the system. MB923 2 months ago Correct, so why did you say you would make that trade in a second if you were the Yankees? (Severino + Judge for Hamels). TFF17 2 months ago The Yankees have a pretty good team. That s why they need him.The Red Sox need five pitchers, not just one. And based on their recent roster management, if they were to acquire Hamels they would likely demote Joe Kelly their most effective starter thus far. They are very reluctant to cut bait on dead contracts. MB923 2 months ago And a pretty good team that can win Without him. We will see where things stand at the trade deadline. Things may be better, things may be worse (for all ALE teams). cxz 2 months ago I think it s more likely they chase down a Garza or Gallardo than a Hamels, should they make any type of move any time soon. Douglas Rau 2 months ago Do NOT make it happen, Cash!!! We need Judge to replace Beltran very soon and Severino could contribute this season, and be very cheap for seasons to come. Douglas Rau 2 months ago The Yankees are only sure of their long term plans (I m using long term here to mean beyond the 2016 season ) at C (Brian McCann or John Ryan Murphy or Gary Sanchez), 3B (Chase Headley), LF (Brett Gardner) and CF (Jacoby Ellsbury). They HOPE Didi Gregorius turns out to be a long term solution at short but we ll see. They HOPE Rob Refsnyder can provide answers at 2B, Greg Bird at 1B and Aaron Judge at RF but there s almost no chance ALL of those pan out. With so many positions to be filled in long term, I m not inclined to give up a bunch of kids who could help fill a bunch of those doubtful spots for a guy who is going to pitch once every 5 days. Not at this point in time. I want to see how the team performs with Chase Whitley in the rotation, backed by that excellent bullpen. Or the team could go in the direction: like last season, they could lose 4/5 of the starting rotation and completely fall out of the race, in which case Cole Hamels probably isn t going to be enough single handedly. I m not going to sign off on a knee jerk trade just because Tanaka got hurt, when this plan to get younger and more athletic has been in place for a few years now. Douglas Rau 2 months ago Upon further reflection, I might be okay with Severino/John Ryan Murphy (and maybe, maybe I could be convinced to switch that to Gary Sanchez) and Slade Heathcott. Steve Adams 2 months ago They d give other teams an alternative, I suppose, but no one s going to equate Lohse/Garza with Hamels. For a team looking to significantly upgrade its rotation, Hamels is still the primary option. Income Bully 2 months ago I think it depends more on if teams are looking for a significant upgrade or if they re looking to eat up some innings without dealing their top prospects. I see Lohse as the ideal trade piece for quite a few different teams. Mackster248 2 months ago I think they re hoping that if they pay some of Hamel s contract, then more teams would be inclined to trade their top prospects. I don t think this makes a difference to be honest. Teams like Dodgers and Red Sox could care less if the Phillies eat 10-20 million. They d rather keep their prospects. Steven Garrison 2 months ago Yea I agree and especially with how deep the free agent pitchers class is next year nunez 2 months ago For teams that don t have an unlimited payroll, though, eating money could be the difference in not just what prospects are included but being able to make a deal altogether. Mackster248 2 months ago That s true. Thought the teams that the Phillies keep calling seem to be teams with deep pockets. Dodgers, Cubs and BOS seem to have the prospects they most want. Phillies_Aces35 2 months ago If the Phillies were to eat say $20 million off his contract you re looking at Cole Hamels for $76 million dollars on a 4 year deal.Cole Hamels at 4 years $75-80million David Price at 7 years 200+ million. ShamrockinATL 2 months ago Agreed hamels deal will be way below market value. I mean homer Bailey has a 100mm guarantee stymeedone 2 months ago Yes, but if you don t have a #1 starter, what are you going to do? If you are contending now, waiting till one develops from the farm is not the answer. TB1223 2 months ago Hamels has a no-trade clause. Any deal for him would almost certainly require them to pick up the 20M option in his contract. Douglas Rau 2 months ago For the moment but he made his debut in 2006 and he made 23 starts in that season and has spent all of his career with the Phillies. He must be close to being a 10-and-5 player who will have full no-trade control. That might be why the Phillies are eager to move him. Douglas Rau 2 months ago Cole Hamels at 4 years $75-80 million + losing a bunch of your best prospects who may go on to be very good players, for very cheap for a few seasons vs. David Price at 7 years, 200+ million and likely (given where the teams rumored to be interested in Hamels are likely to finish in the standings) your first round pick in next year s draft, who may not even reach the same level as the prospects you d be giving up in the deal. A team could make a deal for Hamels, keep their pick and pick the next Brien Taylor (google him). That s how farm systems become barren in a hurry. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago How do we know those are the teams they keep calling. We knew that the Phillie were not willing to eat $$ but now we know that wasn t the case. Several years ago we knew that Cliff Lee was going to sign with the Yankees (most likely). No one knew that he was in negotiations with the Phillies. It s all speculation. TB1223 2 months ago We never told a club we would not absolutely subsidize his contract They weren t telling clubs they would either, now they are. Sounds like classic political spin there. In other words, change position without admitting it. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago And that is still just speculation. We know several things about RAJ He often makes ill-advised comments (i.e Howard). He did not get much of a return for Pence, but when it came to making big trades/signings he played his cards very close to the vest. No one saw Oswalt, Pence, Lee coming. He can be very good at being tightlipped so unless multiple GM s come out and say RAJ said the Phillies would not kick in any money all we have to go on is that statement he made. TB1223 2 months ago Right, except you said now we know that wasn t the case Regarding Their willingness to eat the salary. It s all speculation we don t know anything for sure. TB1223 2 months ago Agree, eating payroll is a good idea. Almost every GM reached max payroll for the season during the off-season. It would be easier to present a case to your owner if you re able to say it will only cost minimal money this season, and prospects than the alternative. Klaus D. 2 months ago Exactly. It shocks me how much teams value their prospects. Other teams seem to want to have their cake and eat it too. So as you said, good luck winning the World Series with a bunch of mid-rotation arms while you wait and hope that those prospects that you value so much turn into something down the line. I m not going to lose any sleep if Hamels stays a Phillie. Odds are against the Phillies. Out of every 3 top prospects, normally 1 may make an impact at the Major League level. So will making a trade boost the Phillies farm system? I guess, but what does that amount to? A few years ago the Phillies had one of the better farm systems. They used that talent to trade for guys like Lee, Halladay, Oswalt, Pence, etc. Where would they be if they hadn t made those trades? They likely wouldn t have had the success that they had over that 5 year run from 07-11, and now none of those prospects have really amounted to much of anything anyway, so they wouldn t be in any better place today had they kept those prospects. In fact, if they never made those trades back then, the same people who complain about Ruben having traded away the farm would now, be complaining that he didn t make a move to try to win another title back then! In order for the Phillies to be good again, trading Hamels isn t the (only) solution. They need to scout and draft better, and spend wisely in the international market. Just my two cents. I m sure many here disagree. TB1223 2 months ago There are 29 other teams in the league, and for various reasons, none of them have made a deal. I wish Phillie fans would stop blaming everyone else for Amaro s inability to work out a trade. He couldn t even work out a Papelbon to Brewers deal a slam dunk and he failed. Klaus D. 2 months ago 29 teams, but only a handful have a decent farm system. Should they just give Hamels away? I don t think so. Not just to the highest bidder for the sake of making a trade. I m glad RAJ is holding out. I m not a fan of RAJ at all don t get me wrong. Terrible GM. But this is one that I feel he s getting right. I m also fine with having not dealt Papelbon yet. Relievers markets are always highest in July, not February. If Paps keeps pitching the way he has been last year and so far this year, he ll be an easy trade in July in my opinion. I m not expecting a fantastic return for Paps, but I think it ll be better in July than what he would ve gotten from a terrible farm system in the Brewers in February. TB1223 2 months ago Of course return will be greater in July if Paps . . . . That s the risk though. It s a gamble, which has paid off so far. If either gets injured or or performs poorly, their value becomes nil. But, if they keep performing at a high level, the return will continue to go up, as their salaries slowly go down, and the desperation of teams contending goes up. But, they re gambling for a slightly larger return, while risking getting nothing back at all.I guess it comes down to whether your a gambler or not. Don t get me wrong, I d prob have same option as you, if I were Phil fan too. fighterflea 2 months ago What s the failure in keeping Papelbon? Your better argument would have been Cliff Lee. redsoxu571 2 months ago See, this is where I have to remind Phillie fans how obstinate and stupid they re being.Sure, flags fly forever and prospects often amount to little, so in that regard your point is fair.But then WHY DO YOU KEEP INSISTING ON BOSTON TRADING BETTS OR SWIHART? If Boston is supposed to trade for Hamels because a championship this season should take priority over some of the franchise s long-term health, then those are the TWO WRONG GUYS to ask for.Betts is the full-time leadoff hitter (and no longer even a prospect, as he has shown his MLB skills). If you trade him, you create a major hole for THIS season. Why create one hole just to fill another?As for Swihart, he is easily on pace to be Boston s 50%+ catcher by midseason meaning that he ALSO is set to help the team this season. Again, hurting this year s team while helping it.Boston has oodles of appealing prospects at varying levels. Why not focus on a Margot, a guy who could be rated as a top 15 prospect as early as next season with the way he s developing but who also is a ways away from Boston? Why not add in Bradley, who could be the team s starting CF for the next decade but whose price is lower due to his initial stumbles? Why INSIST on two guys who Boston has plans for in 2015, thereby killing the ability to do a deal for any of the many other tasty pieces out there? 4ester 2 months ago Margot, Devers, and one of Rodriguez/Owens. Phils throw in $10 million and maybe get Coyle out of the deal too .maybe Bradley Jr. brian 2 months ago Rodriguez, Margot, devers, ptbnl .. That s better than most teams 123, get it done for crying out loud, that s fair on both sides. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago My question would be . Why should the Phillies trade one of the better pitchers in baseball for guys you keep describing as could be East Coast Bias 2 months ago Isn t it just as asinine to suggest Phillies should care about the Boston lineup this year, or any year, rather than their own for the foreseeable future? Who cares if someone is a prospect or just brought up or on the ML team? If the Phillies think this person, or persons, can help them in the future, they will target them. Boston doesn t have to make the deal, but that doesn t mean Phillies shouldn t ask for their own best case scenario. Plus, there are other teams (Cards, Dodgers, Yanks, etc.) which may value Hamels higher and give up their own version of Betts or Swihart. It s a seller s market. Phillies can ask for the moon. GameMusic3 2 months ago They should care who is considered a MLB asset by a team.If a team has those prospects expected as a member of a run it would not be a win now move to trade them and thus a Hamels trade is quite moot.If you are from the Phillies and continually insist on a graduating prospect essentially asking about a billion dollar trade is the same thing since you are denying a trade. East Coast Bias 2 months ago Difference is, someone else will be willing to pay a billion dollars as you put it. Seller s market. It is in the Phillies best interest to look out for the Phillies best interest. And their best interest is to get the best package back possible. This includes players on all rosters. Phillies have an allegiance to their fans, not to Boston, or any other team. They couldn t care less how it effects the other team. And lastly, even if someone is on the team that you consider an asset, that can help you win now, you may still trade said player because the return would be better. Just look at Oakland trading Cespedes for Lester. For Boston, specifically, they have a strong of a farm that even if they lose Betts or Swihart, they can substitute those players with decent options. GameMusic3 2 months ago You do not get a great deal by eliminating competition which is exactly the thing you are proposing.If you want a guy that is valuable to the point the team buying is lowering their chances despite making supposedly a win now trade you lose. East Coast Bias 2 months ago If you think I am proposing to eliminate competition, you need to reread my post. I m stating that it is better to have many suitors, hence it was a good idea to wait until there is a need for an ace by multiple teams. To reiterate, it is a SELLER S MARKET, so they can command their price, and have many teams offer their best package, accepting the best one. And no idea what your last run on sentence is trying to say. Wanna try again? Bradley Maravalli 2 months ago Eating salary is typically a good way to 1) get more prospects from your trade partner and 2) helping teams who have a limited budget, particularly in a midseason trade. Steven Garrison 2 months ago but would that team trade their prospects, or wait for the pitchers available in free agency for the offseason Tim Red Man Brooker 2 months ago You know they still have to give up a draft pick (prospect) when they sign those players in FA right? Steve 2 months ago No doubt that s taken into consideration, but the prospects being talked about here are a lot more experienced, teams know they ve developed well in the minors and are now as close to blue chip as prospects can get. The value of those sort of guys is a lot higher than draft picks who may or may not develop well enough to reach blue chip status. ViV 2 months ago Yes, a team *can* sign another pitcher in the 2016 FA period, but there are several reasons why adding Hamels is preferable. 1) You would have to commit FAR less money to Hamels, and you could use that extra money (eg) to get a mid-rotation pitcher in 2016 so that you fill two rotation spots, 2) The team would get him now to help in a 2015 playoff run, and 3) you get to keep your 2017 1st round pick.All of this is worth something 0, and so it will warrant compensation in the way of prospects. How many prospects is a matter of debate, but there are answers to the question, Why would a team do x, when they could just do y so please stop asking it in every thread in these comments. Bradley Maravalli 2 months ago All depends if they feels that they could contend now and think the price is right with prospects. The price has not been right this offseason or last midseason so you never know. rouscher 2 months ago Nah, eating a contract is more for Texas, St.Louis, and Toronto. Boston, New York, and LA don t care about that money. the money is just an option to make the deal easier for the other team. I mean what sounds even better Hamels at 4/96 ( he ll already be paid some money so it ll be less than that) or Hamels at 4/75? ( again it s possible it could even be lower than that depending on how much he s already received in season) East Coast Bias 2 months ago The total opposite. The Phillies see an opportunity with teams rotation either struggling or losing pitchers to injury. They realize now is their time to strike after correctly exercising patience during the offseason. This is their way of voicing we still have a top pitcher in Hamels and can command a bidding war. In theory, Philly could ask for MORE than they were in the winter because there is no comparable pitcher on the trading block to Hamels, but there are a lot more buyers now due to necessity. NCBirdfan 2 months ago The Phillies seem to have lost the window to get the best deal for Hamels. Now, showing signs of desperation, it appears they might not get much or be forced to pay a good chunk of his contract. nunez 2 months ago Desperation? With all the pitching injuries contending teams have sustained, it s shaping up to be a seller s market for pitching again this July. philly_435 2 months ago The trade value for Hamels has gone up if anything. If Hamels can keep up his current pace along with injuries to starting pitchers around the league (not hoping for it but it is almost a certainty), his value will continue to rise. It has potential to rise to extreme heights or it could evaporate with one injury. It s a very high stakes gamble for the Phillies cxz 2 months ago I don t know that the value has gone up really, I think it s just stagnant and the same as it s been, we all know around what it s going to take to get him. The perceived suitors have certainly grown though, it s just a matter of one of those suitors feeling the need fits the price. jiminnc 2 months ago Keep up his current pace? You mean the 4.6 walks per nine, exactly twice his career average? Not a good sign at age 31. Matt 2 months ago I wouldn t worry about that. Cole never seems to have a good April. He seems to pitch better when the weather warms ups. jiminnc 2 months ago Career walks per 9 in March/ April = about 3.When a used car salesman says I wouldn t worry about that, do you say OK or do you run away? Matt 2 months ago I get what you are saying but as a Phillies phan having Cole s walk rate up slightly isn t very high on my list of concerns right now. If it stays up going into June or July then I will start to worry. He s probably pitching to carefully knowing that if he gives up more than 2 runs that he is going to lose since the Phillies offense is horrible. fighterflea 2 months ago You run away if there s a better deal elsewhere. But what s your point? Costs fans nothing to wait and watch. Costs GM s jobs sometimes. Utley's Knees 2 months ago If anything the possible number of teams for Cole Hamels destination has increased as injuries to Wainwright, Ryu, McCarthy, Tanaka and the underperformance of Boston s staff. TB1223 2 months ago Bostons underperformance hasn t helped facilitate a deal, unless Phillies have 4-5 starters to deal. Red Sox keep it up, they ll need to use this season as a building block. And that wouldn t be a bad thing. The team is very young, with many almost ready for prime-time players at AAA. 2016 is a much better target year to go for it than 2015. Steve 2 months ago Exactly. The way the season has gone so far makes it more likely that they ll grab an ace in the offseason, not trade their top prospects for help now. MB923 2 months ago You can say that about A Lot of teams. Not just the Yankees.I read an article on FanGraphs (though it was in 2012) that listed from 1-30 the teams that developed and drafted the best talent the last 10 years (2002-2011). All rankings via WAR. The Yankees didn t rank high, but they were ranked ahead of 9 teams, including your PhilliesI also read an article on a Phillies site (this one written last July), that since 2006, the Phillies have not developed one New positional player that has had a 2.0 WAR season. Only team in baseball not to. philly_435 2 months ago Oh yes, the Phillies scouting department has been putrid.The thing with Yankees and Red Sox prospects is that they generally get more media attention and draw all kinds of ridiculous historical comparisons. It s less to do with actual numbers and more to do with that than anything else really. SO in a way it is an unfair assertion I made but I hope you see the point pft53 2 months ago Yankees too cheap to take on any salary of significance. Might be interested in Harang for a lesser prospect, but forget Hamels. MB923 2 months ago Lol. Harang? No thanks. There s no denying he s been good lately but let s not act as if he has a great track record or that he s a young guy with team control for the next couple of years.Harang at best would probably get in return a top 20-25 prospect. Voice of Reason 2 months ago Yankees don t have enough to get Hamels.Plus, the days of the big spending by the Yanks died when George died. MB923 2 months ago Actually they do, and it has been reported they have been the team closest to getting him. They may not be the team to come out with the best offer, but it doesn t mean they don t have enough to get him. Huge difference there. Steve Adams 2 months ago We obviously use an automatic linker (I d go insane if I had to link/bold all of these names in each post, haha) I actually wasn t aware the linker has been pointing to the wrong Martinez, but I ll make a not to manually correct that before publishing. Have to do it any time we reference Chris Young (outfielder) or Jose Fernandez as well. Kyle Noe 2 months ago The solution for your hyperlink issue is a single PowerPoint file with all your player-hyperlinks compiled simple fix (copy and paste hyperlink for said player). Use active 40-man rosters to develop your PP file at the end of spring training each year. Learned it in the marines. Useful. Thanks for the article. Big fan of Carlo and kind of worried Mo will relent. Hate to see Marco or Piscotty go either, but that d be a fair deal and start the rebuild in Philly. Karkat 2 months ago Powerpoint? Who on earth uses Powerpoint for managing data locally. The solution to avoiding these problems is to write codes for frequent alternates such as Chris Young (OF) TheRealRyan 2 months ago Really? The simple solution is calling Bill in the IT dept and telling him you have a problem he needs to fix. Done. You guys really make things so hard sometimes. William 2 months ago Phillies get what you want for Hamels you have nothing to lose by keeping him for the off season when the Gm s learn the Price for Free agent pitchers. He can still be traded then for a decent multiple A-1 Projects then. It them who need a Quality Pitcher . Roger 2 months ago RAJ got criticized for how he has handled this, but things are shaping up very nicely for him right now.There should be other aces available, but they are all rentals. Cory Jones 2 months ago Cards won t trade Martinez with Lackey probably only pitching this year, and Gonzalez close to reaching the Majors .I see maybe a lot of type 2 players and Cards take on a lot of cash, because they have the payroll to without jeopardizing the entire team So maybe Gonzalez, but not Martinez Probably going after some other cheap alternative is the way for the Cards anyways, because they are a well rounded team who could beat just about anyone right now Income Bully 2 months ago I m not sure I see them dealing Gonzalez either. If the Phillies eat some cash, it could definitely be a good deal, but they still are going to want Martinez or too many of our top prospects. I still think Lohse is a good fit to come back, even if it s within the division. Our farm system has declined a lot in the last year, I think Mo isn t going to want to give it away . but it would be cool to see Hamels play for the Cards. SDFriars 2 months ago They should have pulled the trigger this summer. Now they ve lost value and have to hope Hamels recovers that value and doesnt get injured. Not a good situation to be in, especially with the amount of quality free agent SPs this coming winter. Bill 2 months ago I still think the Dodgers can get it done while keeping Seager, Pederson, Urias and Holmes. Alex Verdugo, Chris Anderson, and Darnell Sweeney plus 4th piece could make a nice deal for Hamels. Maybe even work something out to take a albatross contract for salary relief if that ups the haul. Steven Garrison 2 months ago Ruben would hang up the phone if Seager, Pederson or Urias are not involved. Zach lee could be involved maybe Bill 2 months ago That may be true in isolation, but does RAJ pull the trigger on the best deal available by the deadline, and just move on? Phillies_Aces35 2 months ago Holding onto Hamels has been the right move. I don t think the Cards have enough to get him (I think Harang makes some sense for them though) but all it takes is one of Boston, LA, Chicago, and New York to step up for the Phillies to get a solid haul. (I don t see New York trading for him but bidding to drive the price up for Boston).Everything that could possibly break right for Ruben has. He needs to cash in because he ll never have a better opportunity to trade Hamels than he does between now and July 31st. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago If I m RAJ I don t act too quickly though. Let the desperation build as the season progresses a little. There is no reason to doubt that Cole will follow suit and get better as the season goes on as well thereby increasing his value, he always does. If I am RAJ I don t even start to talk unless the centerpiece is a youngish, controllable type with some proven success in the MLB if money is involved. Bill 2 months ago Yes, the big question is when does he pull the trigger, as the deal is good enough Phillies wanted a catcher, but they also could use some position players, and I d be good to go with 3-4 solid players. NoAZPhilsPhan 2 months ago I guess I m an old stick in the mud. I have never been very fond of trading top-end players for strictly unproven prospects. If you want one of my best guys, not to mention one of the best in the game, then you are going to give me someone who has actually played at the major-league level and is productive to start. Bill 2 months ago I hear ya. I just want the best return possible, and get moving forward. I have no problem keeping him if the return is lousy, but it s worth wondering what Raj will think is good enough. N_Cap 2 months ago The pirates make a lots of sense in a money eating scenario. Bucs could use another arm as worley and Locke have been inconsistent and Morton is a big ?. Pirates also have the system to deal 1-2 bigger prospect alla meadows plus kingham or Hanson to Make a deal happen without really hurting their future outlook. Obviously more pieces would be involved Matt 2 months ago That s the smart thing about this. It opens up the small market teams that won t be bidding on the aces that will be available this off season. Philip 2 months ago I ve been saying the pirates should make this happen for a long time, but I think it ll take more than Kingham and Meadows or Hanson, likely Bell and Taillon plus another low level prospect if the pirates want money towards Hamels salary. It s a move the Pirates can afford to make in terms of money and prospects and would give them one of the best, if not the best, rotations in baseball. N_Cap 2 months ago Meadows is a consensus top 50 prospect and kingham is a consensus top 80 prospect. Throw in a guy like Hanson I d still do it. ( is taillon a better option in a trade than kingham at this point from the Philly s view? Philip 2 months ago Not sure where you re seeing Kingham is a consensus top 80. From what I ve seen there is a big drop off from Kingham to Taillon or even Glasnow if they were really serious. Even after TJ surgery Taillon is Baseball America s 29th best prospect while Kingham isn t top 100. Bell and Meadows may be interchangeable, both top 30-50. I admittedly don t know a lot about Philly s minor league system but from the Pirates point of view you can part with a blue chip pitcher since you re getting an ace, and the outfield is already crowded so I d actually prefer to give up Meadows to Bell since Bell moved to first. pft53 2 months ago Red Sox should trade whatever is needed to get Hamels, Harang and Papelbon. Taking on all of Papelbon and Hamels salary should reduce the prospect load. They can take Masterson, Craig and any 2 of Bostons top prospects (who never seem to develop as expected) and call it a deal Steve Adams 2 months ago So you re suggesting that after holding out all offseason and all Spring Training, insisting that they receive two elite prospects plus other pieces the Phillies now settle for Masterson (who isn t even eligible to be traded yet), Craig and a pair of whichever prospects Boston is ok parting with, despite the fact that in-season injuries/deficiencies have cause demand to increase? stymeedone 2 months ago I read it as any two prospects from Boston that Philly would like. Getting the prospects they want might entice the Phillies to take on the dump contracts. Jim McGrath 2 months ago I think and have thought for months if you could speed the financial prospect for the Phils you could get more for less?Howardor Utley( + cash), Hamels, Giles, and Pap for Nap,Vic, Mujica, Owens, JBJ, Leone, Coyle, Margot and Trey Ball.Giles, Pap and Hamels essentially for some help today and some really good prospects moving to Philly along with players coming off the books at seasons end from the Sox. stymeedone 2 months ago I could see Philly taking on an expiring contract if they get the top prospect they want, but you don t have them getting that top prospect in your trade(Betts/ Swihart). Boston is too close to the soft cap to acquire that much salary. They would take Hamels, but have no need of Utley or Howard, and probably can t afford both Hamels and Pap. David Coonce 2 months ago I can t imagine any scenario in which the Phillies would want Masterson or Craig. Masterson can t be traded right now anyway. docmilo5 2 months ago Senno ecto gammat.Never without my permission. I think guys signed just need to give permission for a trade before June. I would guess money talks. David Coonce 2 months ago I think you re right; he can grant permission to be traded. But why would he do that, and why would the Phillies want him? ChuckMorris36 2 months ago Take Buchholz and Miley and a couple decent prospects (not named betts swihart or Owens) for Hamels Harang and Papelbon. It would be nice to grab Ken Goles too. ShamrockinATL 2 months ago Who wouldn t rather trade for walker but fat chance working that deal out. Did I miss something where walker is on the block Mike1L 2 months ago It makes sense for the Phillies to do whatever they can to maximize their prospect return. If that means paying down some salary on traded players, that should be acceptable so long as they get value. The Phillies need talent far more than they need money at this point. bobbleheadguru 2 months ago Phillies are playing their cards correctly. Hamels has more value now, than 2 months ago, when the Red Sox figured they could Patriots their way into a Championship by outsmarting all of MLB by settling for a moderately adequate rotation. Turns out that the Red Sox front office is NOT as smart as the Patriots (and they do not have a Tom Brady-like Superstar at the moment).They should count their blessings with the unbelievable luck they had in 2013. It will be very hard to get to that level again with the roster they have now. GuessWho 2 months ago How are Phillies playing their cards correctly? All winter long to trade for Hamels you had to take on the entire contract and give up a top prospect, now they are willing to include salary for whoever trades for him. If the Sox trade Swihart right now and pay 10-15M less they played their cards better by holding on a little longer, but as you said they are not really smart . bobbleheadguru 2 months ago Money is not a big factor either way with cash rich Phillies. They want talent coming back. Makes sense to declare that now.It is impossible to know what was on the table then. What is clear now is that the Red Sox are joined by the Cardinals, and maybe the Yankees or even the Mets or as I mentioned in a different post, the Tigers.The bidding war is on. GuessWho 2 months ago The Tigers have nothing And as far as money goes, it does have something to do with situation. The price for Hamels went down whether you accept it or not. Any team that gets him now pays less than what they would have payed for 2 months ago so it has been beneficial for other teams to hold on tight, and yes that includes the Red Sox. bobbleheadguru 2 months ago That Tigers Have Nothing refrain has been repeated for the last 7 years yet they ALWAYS get the the pitcher they want: Scherzer, Fister, Anibal, Price, Greene. How? bobbleheadguru 2 months ago Tigers could take both as a package. No Doubt. They have plenty of assets to trade as well. For those who think they have a weak system, Adames, Smyly and Travis all spiked in value by the experts after being traded from the Tigers (who had a bad farm system with them, supposedly). Tigers seem to finagle a way to get the players they want, because their system is stronger than experts think. It is just a question of whether they want to pay the luxury tax. Bob Bunker 2 months ago The difference was that for the Price trade they had to give up two major leauge players and their top prospect. I suppose if Philly really likes Casty, Gose, Greene, or Lobstein the deal could get done but I think the Price deal will be the last blockbuster Detroit pulls off for a few years. bobbleheadguru 2 months ago Here is a trade that could work if the Tigers have determined that Price is un-signable:1. Hamels and Papelbon to Tigers.2. Castellanos (or similar value player) and top Tigers Prospect to Phillies.3. Price to a 3rd team (Mets might be a good fit here), that would give up a top prospect to the Phillies.Phillies get 2 top prospects and a major league ready 24 year old hitter. Perez moves to 3rd if Castellanos is traded . or perhaps Moya gets moved and Cespedes is extended right now. Tigers swap 5 months of Price for 3 years, 5 months Hamels and get a top reliever, addressing their glaring weakness.3rd team gets Price for the cost of a top prospect. Bob Bunker 2 months ago That s interesting but at that point the Tigers will have added 17 million to this year salary, lost their starting 3B, and lost their top prospect without actually getting much better and technially maybe would be gettting worse for this year. I think it s a decent move long term but could back fire this yaer. bobbleheadguru 2 months ago They would lose Price s Salary (~$16MM = Prorated portion remaining?) with the trade. Basically, they would taking on Papelbon s salary as Price and Hamels are pretty close this year.Castellanos has huge upside and is still very young, but they do not need another hitter in 2015. They do need another top bullpen arm. That is their main weakness.They would be giving up the potential of Castellanos (and the prospect) for getting Hamels locked in for 3+ years and a closer/8th inning guy through 2016. I see their short term team as BETTER in this scenario. Bob Bunker 2 months ago Price makes 4 million less then Hamels and Pap makes 13 million. Casty hasn t put it all togethor but last year was near a leauge average hitter, projections have him around a WRC+ of 103, and defensive numbers early in the season are improved. His replacement Pereze has a -28 WRC+ sp far, projects for a 73 WRC+ and defensive numbers are poor so far. That s a big drop in production.I think the Price edge over Hamels and the drop from Casty to Perez is more damaging to the team then the Pap addition. DrRamblings 2 months ago Interesting trade, but the Mets are definitely not a good trade partner in that scenario. The Mets have: Harvey, deGrom, Colon….then 5 guys (Gee, Niese, Montero, Syn, Matz) for those last two spots. The LAST thing they need is a rental SP. The Mets need a corner outfielder, an upgrade at SS/2B, and another bullpen arm if Black/Blevins can t come back. Karkat 2 months ago I had a dream last night that the Sox traded Betts + like 4 prospects for Hamels and I was very upset. Bob Bunker 2 months ago That would be awful. Betts is so exciting to watch and once BABIP rebounds watch out. On a side note when will Boston give some of the AAA starters a chance. E-Rod is dominant and already on the 40 man, surely they could give him a spot start. Draven Moss 2 months ago We gotta give these guys 10 starts each, as bad as that may sound .. Their FIPs all show signs of much better improvement, it is just whether or not it will translate. Bob Bunker 2 months ago I agree they should be given more starts and FIP shows signs of improvement but why not give everyone an extra day of rest just to see if E-Rod can cut it. I mean he is looking very ready and if he dominates in his spot start stick with a 6 man rotation. Draven Moss 2 months ago I m probably too much of a traditionalist to want to see that happen, and I m not sure we should go to that measure yet. That would take up another roster spot, which could probably be used to field a more valuable player. I d say give them all three or four more starts to evaluate their results, and then call up one of Johnson/E-Rod if need be. Bob Bunker 2 months ago Yeah I don t see it happening but it could also be good for the pen as the SP could do relief work on their normal bullpen session days. Also, the lack of a true ace means the 6 man rotation wouldn t hurt the team like it would for LAD or NYM. Dave 2 months ago You know, I dont know that the Cardinals are desperate exactly, but it does seem like Amaro is finally realizing that nobody wants to pay what he s asking at all if they can make do with a AAA guy who can at least hold up the fort if not have significant upside for a LOT less money and no prospects. The real bummer for Amaro is that all the teams who have lost a starter, have non-terrible minor league systems with at least one serviceable arm. Maybe the best arm was a career AAA guy who s gonna get more than a cup of coffee at the majors now, but it s sure not like the Cardinals or Dodgers or Jays are out of options with younger, cheaper guys. Boston, maybe. New York, not necessarily. Bob Bunker 2 months ago The Red Sox have Owens, E-Rod, and Brian Johnson all top 100 prospects at AAA plus Barnes a former top 100 prospect and Wright a journeyman with a good knuckle ball. Dave 2 months ago So why aren t those dudes playing in the majors instead of one or two of the guys they have there right now? When your closer has as many wins as your best starter, maybe there s a thing going on where your rotation is not what many call good . Bob Bunker 2 months ago Well I think they want to give Clay, Masterson, and Kelly more then 3-5 starts to prove themselves. After all three are striking out good amount of people, have good periphials, and have had good starts mixed with bad ones. Also, Masterrson and Clay have shown top of the rotation results in the past they should be given a few more starts before bailing. Still too early to panic though I would like to see E-Rod, Johnson, or Barnes get a spot start soon as an audition for a larger role.My point isn t that the Red Sox minor leaugers are all studs but that they a non-terrible farm system with multiple servicable arms. JD. 2 months ago The jays have given up to many young potential star players already. Stay the course. Plus there s no reason to trade for Hamels until the bullpen has been taken care of. Bob Bunker 2 months ago The Jays did give up a lot of talent before 2012 but they also seem pretty good at identifying talent and developing young pitching. Norris, Sanchez, Hoffman, Stroman, Hutch, Osuna, and Castro point to this.Plus accquring Hamels for a Hoffman based package allows Stroman to move to the pen where he could be a dominant 1-3 IP guy. Kill two birds with one stone. Jason 2 months ago Stroman to move to the pen where he could be a dominant 1-3 IP guy. Kill two birds with one stone. I assume you mean Sanchez, since Stro is done for the year, and also a very good SP. TB1223 2 months ago Funny, a few months ago, many criticized the Red Sox and their fans for not willing to give up their top 2 prospects for Hamels. Now, as more and more teams are added to the pool of interested parties, their fans seem unwilling to give up the cream of their prospect crop either. Bill 2 months ago That is natural. Phillies fans did not want to give up Kyle Drabek to Blue Jays for Roy Halladay. It means very little. Only important thing is that acquiring team give up just enough to get the other team to pull the trigger. Damon Bowman 2 months ago First, we know you re getting solid prospects when Hamels is traded eating some of the contract doesn t change that. Second, you eat contract money when you want to boost the return in a deal. How much more can you get if you eat $3-5 mil a season for the remaining contract? Finally, doesn t this information reek of a bit of desperation on Amaro s part? He can move Hamels whenever he wants and get a decent return. It feels as if Amaro is trying to revitalize the entire franchise in a single deal and that s not going to happen until one team gets desperate for Hamels. 4ester 2 months ago To me, it actually sends a message for teams like the Pirates and Astros that if they re willing to part with some of their higher level prospects that Cole Hamels could be affordable and make them legitimate contenders now and give them the ability to reek havoc in the playoffs. Before the market for Hamels was for the teams with deeper pockets since the next 4 years are connected to him, this increase the amount of potential bidders in my opinion. 22Leo 2 months ago Exactly, if the Phillies are willing to eat some of Hamels contract, then more teams can afford him. Ned L 2 months ago The free agent crop of pitchers waiting to come on the market after this season is certainly having an effect on the value of Hamels this year, so it may take more than eating some of the contract to get this trade done. redsoxu571 2 months ago The one thing I don t understand is why the Phillies would even begin to entertain a deal with, say, the Yankees, and yet continue to refuse to consider a Boston deal minus a Betts or Swihart.Those two Boston pieces are more valuable on the trade market than any one piece the Yankees have to offer, and Boston has plenty of prospects on the Severino and Judge level. So why not consider Boston packages with, say, ANYONE else? That doesn t mean the Phillies would have to end up dealing to Boston (heck, I wouldn t want that to happen myself), and perhaps the Phillies really really like Severino and Judge even above their general market value, but if you re willing to consider a deal with that level of prospects from one team, you should be willing to consider that level of prospects with ANY team. The fact that some have even better prospects should not make it your best pieces or forget about it .Heck, the franchises with deeper farm systems such as Boston can afford to give away a better total package anyways, so focusing on the team s top guys shuts you out on SO many other excellent alternatives. GameMusic3 2 months ago It would be a not surprising development if Amaro is weighing offers by the prospects internal standing versus actual value. john59 2 months ago I hope Red Sox will have patience and not rush into a Hamels trade. After all, Hamels won t solve rotation issues RS have at this point. The solution should come from inside, pitchers getting better or whoever is underperforming after 5-6 starts be replaced by young guns (ERod, Owens, Barnes). It is hard to believe that all 5 SP will just keep blowing game after game. They are not rookies, Nieves is around, even Farrell so things should get better if they don t panic. Lance 2 months ago I have no idea of the Phillies $$$ situation. I doubt any of us in this forum do. They re already on the hook for older/injured/unproductive players like Lee, Howard Utley. But with so many teams in need of a pitcher like Hamels, it doesn t seem like PHIL would have a lot of troubles getting rid of him. Cole has pitched OK so far but there is always the risk of injury. How desperate are teams like LAD, STL, NYY and several others who could afford him? For these teams in contention, so you risk losing a few quality starts Hamels would bring you now? Bill 2 months ago Phillies have one of the lowest forward commitment payrolls in baseball, and it s getting lower by the day. Every week, another $2M is eaten away at just the Ryan Howard and Cliff Lee contracts. And they are likely to have a very modest payroll for 2016 and 2017 while they (hopefully) transition to an upcoming young team. In addition, they have a new TV deal coming in which will open up a big revenue stream, and it s not impossible to see past 2015 when their big contracts are done, and can pay the free agents of their choice while other teams struggle with the back ends of their huge contracts. Bill 2 months ago You cannot build a complete team via free agency, you need to begin with a core of solid young players, then add the missing pieces via free agency. They are looking to trade Cole Hamels to obtain the young core pieces needed to begin a new competitive era. You never know which players are going to actually be solid, so you have to play all young guys on tryouts for a year or more, then when you have a decent base you can add free agents that fit your needs.This may or may not happen by 2016, but after that, they could look pretty good. Free Agents are players in their prime and you should be ready to contend when you sign them. If you sign them too soon, they could be declining with difficult to move contracts by the time you are ready to contend. john59 2 months ago I can see the sound of reason in what you are saying which also makes me agree with the teams valuing their prospects also. Why to give up 3-4 prospects for only one, even proven good player? Bill 2 months ago Contending teams have more established players locked up into long term deals, and fewer spots to break in rookies. So prospects are used to get the value players that are needed. A prospect cannot be kept a prospect forever. A major leaguer may have a 15 or more year career, and age gracefully into it. But prospects must break into the majors within a few years, or any potential they may have had is lost or wasted. They could also get selected by another team in a Rule 5 draft because a team can only protect 15 players above the 25 man ML roster after a prospect has been in the minors 3-4 years. So teams have to strategize how to use these assets to the best interests of the club, as every year a new crop of players is brought into the system. john59 2 months ago That is why I hope Red Sox prospects will have a chance to show what they can before being traded. Lance 2 months ago The Phils will pay Lee $25 million this year then will have the $12.5 million buyout next year. Utley makes $15m this year and depending on how many AB he gets, could make $15m the three following years. I guess we keep an eye on how he s doing and whether the Phills will keep him in the lineup. Howard is guaranteed $25m this year and next and there s a $10m buyout in 2017. Paplebom gets $13m this year and probably $13 next year. So after 2017, assuming they trade Hamels away, the Phils are probably in great shape financially at least in terms of salaries. How much they lose at the box office with a lousy team is another ballgame. Attendance has dipped dramatically, from 44k a game three years ago to around 25k a game right now. That s a lot of empty seats and hot dogs and beer not being sold. Bill 2 months ago I m not sure what you are trying to say, but if Lee cannot pitch when he returns midseason, he may retire and reach financial settlement with the Phillies. The Howard contract is a sunk cost and depending on how it plays out this year, anything returned will be a bonus. Utley is year-to year. Expensive, but not a long term barrier. if Hamels is traded, that removes at least the bulk of his deal as well. Nothing else really matters. Papelbon and Chooch, no matter their contracts will not slow any rebuilds down. Every team has to deal with any number of underperforming and expiring contracts, so the Phillies just have to get back into the normal range, not wipe every dollar off the books. After this year, the payroll situation should be well under control. soxski 2 months ago Hate this trade Johnson, Rodriguez and Barnes should be used before departing with Margot or any other high cieling talent. Margot has the ability to play at the end of this season. The real need is to get Pablo and Hanley off the roster while removing Masterson and Miley from the rotation. The three extention with Miley was a poor move so was overpaying Porcello I am confident that the three rookies would not do any worse than any pitcher in our rotation. Ben..thanks for playing chicken with our ACE .moving Lackey and not using Craig. Jim McGrath 2 months ago First Margot is in High A Salem he is two years away he s expendable. Who will he replace? We have Castillo and JBJ that are knocking on the door now…we have Mondano looking for a position to play at 19. I hope to see Margot in Portland this summer he could be with the PawSox next year. soxski 2 months ago Did not say he was not expendable although that is not the word I would use I would use assett and two years from now woild you rather have Cole Hamels or Margot and Johnson, Barnes,or Rodriguez. What I stated is I would not trade Margot or any young arms for Hameld. I would rather overpay for Walker or another ypumg arm like Fernandez. Yputh for youth. I think trading any the night in to me it is the greatest sporting eventalent for immediate .possibly immediate, success. Hamels is not exactly mowing them down. rundmc1981 2 months ago The more I read Amaro s comments on trading Hamels, the more I am convinced he was a used car salesman in a former life and not a good one. Cam Hodgson-Dwyer 2 months ago He s the kind of Used Car Salesman that playfully smacks the tail-light on a car, only for it to fall off. Then he claims it helps aerodynamics.In saying that, he ll look like a genius when someone pays anyway. soxski 2 months ago I agree with the Walker assesment. If I was Cherington I would trade youth for youth. Look for an arm that is 25-28 to add to Johnson and Rodriguez next season .I would pitch them now but with three year extentions and 20 per season extensions there is no way Ben swallows his pride and admits he made a bad deal. Jim McGrath 2 months ago What was the bad deal Ben made?Maybe Miley? Masterson? or signing Koji to an $18 M deal with Andrew Miller available? or the trade that sent Ranaudo to Texas?I like the idea of adding another young arm to go with ERod and Johnson.If the Sox are willing to cut ties with Buch let s send him to a team that thinks they can do something with him In the NL he might help somebody Buch for Pap. or to the Dodgers with Mujica and Craig for Ethier and a little cash.We can then bring up Johnson ERod Barnes if the Hamels trade is not made.Miley could also be moved back to the NL perhaps with Craig or Vic (when he comes off the DL) with some cash. Donnie B 2 months ago Okay . Phillies NEED the following:RFSP2B CMake your team s offer, let s see what proposals are armchair GM s can come up with. Donnie B 2 months ago If I am playing Amaro.. here s what I ask for each club:Hamels and his vesting option $$ for:Yankees Judge / Severino / Stewart / RefsynderRed Sox Margot / Owens or Kelly / Coyle / Swihart (plus we add Ruiz)Dodgers Schebler / Sweeney / Guerrero / Z. Lee or FriasCubs Baez / Schwarber / Almora / Wood / Castillo (plus we add PTBNL)Cardinals Piscotty / Gonzales / Scruggs / StanleyPadres Renfroe / Hedges / Lindsey / Erlin or Cashner Matty R 2 months ago Alex Guerrero has no trade value as if he is traded, his contract is void at the end of the season.That Padres offer was reported as offered during spring training and as being not even close (or the like).Same probably goes for the STL package- just a very weak package- and the Cubs (no pitcher?). BigGameJames 2 months ago No trade value? A lot of teams would love to get a 3B/2B who can slug like Alex for 5 months @ $1 Mil a month. That s a steal for his production. He s been worth nearly 1 WAR in less than 30 PA. Philly wouldn t need him this year but could flip him to many teams. Matty R 2 months ago That s right: no trade value. He would be a rental. Rebuilding teams don t trade for rentals. BigGameJames 2 months ago No he has a great deal of value but less to a rebuilding team with no imagination. Friedman was trying to trade for Josh Hamilton just so he could flip him, some teams want players who OPS above .900 (even rentals). RAJ could get the prospects he needs for Guerrero that LA wouldn t have interest in because of their farm system depth. Philly should be trying to horde young talent no matter the avenue. I highly doubt LA would trade Guerrero anyway, he likely will have to be a starter next year when LA loses 3/4 of it s infield. BigGameJames 2 months ago Schebler, Sweeney and Lee wouldn t be bad from LA if Philly included $. I just don t see LA and Philly matching up, LA is buying prospects not selling them. Better pitchers are available for only $ in a couple months. If I were Philly I d go after younger guys like CF Alex Verdugo, SP Grant Holmes, SP Jose De Leon and C Julian Leon. RAJ wouldn t be in bad shape with a Alex Verdugo, Zach Lee, Jose De Leon type package. ANGEL_FAN_4_EVER 2 months ago Right now the Angels are having a major SP problem, and Artie Moreno is not afraid to throw some cash around. I think in the off season Hamels name did come up. As the article states some teams are saying let s ride it out. I don t believe in the saying The season is still early not to worry That s bull, how many times have we seen a team lose their division by one game, or have to play that one game playoff. Every win counts, and you need to do what ever is necessary to get those wins.I very seldom leave comments, so please forgive me if I don t write like an English major. I love baseball! bobbleheadguru 2 months ago If the Mets are interested in beating the Nationals and winning a World Series right in 2015, with a window that now appears open, they absolutely would want Price. Not much different than the Tigers putting Smyly in a package to get Price in the first place. DrRamblings 2 months ago The Mets are have a Top 5 rotation http://www.teamtbstore.com/lightning-alex-killorn-jersey right now (at least #1-#4), so that isn t where I d look to improve.The Mets are weakest up the middle on defense (SS/2B) and in the corner OF positions..both offensively and defensively. I think Cuddyer OR Grandy would be passable…but not both of them.If the Mets go all in…it d be for Tulo, though I think COL management would need to come down in price (not likely). I m not sure who is available for a COF…I d prefer them give Conforto/Nimmo a shot over a rental veteran. alex navarrette 2 months ago I m saying Hamels would be a great piece to have to help make the Yankees more competitive now, while becoming the mentor for the youth of the next Yankees core. He would be a great player to use to bridge the two together. I d expect the Yankees to go after one of the corner outfield bats this off season which would make Judge a piece to trade. I personally like Severino, but you have to give up talent to get talent. Douglas Rau 2 months ago I don t understand why my comment was deleted I didn t insult any one or use any racial or otherwise insulting language. Exclusive Articles Sign up to receive an exclusive weekly article by MLBTR owner Tim Dierkes. Email Address MLB Trade Rumors is not affiliated with Major League Baseball, MLB or MLB.com